(Revelation 13:8) And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world

(Revelation 17:8)   The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is

So, from the FOTW God was going to write in the book of life.

Although the book of life started to be written from the FOTW, it may be continuously updated or may have been written prophetically at any time containing everyone’s name that is written in it. The book of life written from the FOTW seems more consistent with something happening or even change ‘meaning’ God should write or update this book. Well, logically, God did not have to write a book of life until man was made or perhaps had fallen and a redemptive plan was made available. If the FOTW meant Genesis 1, it may be less logical as man had not fallen. Remember you can be blotted out of this book too. So, in theory then, in, then out and then in again in? (Revelation 3:5)

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Referring back to the major ‘katabole kosmos’ type events above, this just leaves God’s promises to Noah and Abraham and the Genesis 6 day creation account as major ‘katabole’ type events by time to consider as the main candidates for the FOTW. All others are excluded by the time arguments above. It could be that ‘before’ and ‘after’ refer to different events. An analysis of these two covenants/promises reveals:

Abraham was a very significant covenant and involved establishing the promised land, a  promise about Abraham and his descendants and a promise of blessing and redemption. This ties in better with the revelations around the FOTW. (In a nut shell: before it we-all humans- were given to Jesus, we were chosen from inside God, Jesus was foreordained for his role, just after it many secrets were kept about it, a heavenly kingdom started to be prepared, a book of life started to be written and humans could enter into God’s rest) The overriding consequences actions associated with the FOTW are concerned with redemption and the spiritual aspect of existence.

Noah’s covenant was for man to fill the earth, rule over the animals,  to eat animals, declaring that God would not flood the earth anymore and God placing a rainbow in the sky as a sign.of this .These promises are concerned more with the natural earth or physical realm and a judgment.

Clearly, the changes described around the FOTW both before and after lean more towards redemption, salvation and spiritual aspects. This is more consistent with the contents included in Abrahamic promises.

Once the meaning of the foundation of the world is established it opens up other interpretations. So, in conclusion:

I suggest that the phrase ‘after the foundation of the world’ when translated from ‘katabole Kosmos’ refers principally to the time of The Abrahamic Covenant. So, the FOTW ends with the Abrahamic Covenant. However, it appears it may have a different meaning with the prefix ‘before’ and maybe multiple simultaneous meanings also.

Accepting the Hypothesis that katabole kosmos  (Foundation of the world) refers, at least in part  to the Abrahamic Covenant then what does it mean?

After the Abrahamic Covenant (‘the foundation of the world’)

I Suggest that the Abrahamic Covenant was a much bigger moment in time than is generally perceived. The similarities with Abraham's willingness to sacrifice his son and God sacrificing His Son is very significant too. These two sacrifices may even have taken place at the exact same location-Moriah. Although God would have known from before time what would happen it was at this time that the redemption plan was put into action, ground zero and time zero if you like. The world was different from that point on.  A breakdown of the old sinful world and the foundation of a new world to escape from sin had begun. (A katabole kosmos)

Hebrews 11:17:By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son

The Abrahamic covenant applies to more than just Abraham (Romans 4:13)

God does like repeating themes or types in the Bible and it may be that this is the reason for this similarity between Abraham’s near sacrifice of his son and God’s sacrifice of his Son. I favour the view that there is much more to it than this.

Could it be that once Abraham was prepared to sacrifice his own son to God that this gave God the green light to sacrifice his own son for us? Or even did God then have to sacrifice His son? A reciprocal arrangement to satisfy some deep righteous requirement. This is why everything changed at that moment as God brings his redemptive plan into operation. Jesus as a man affecting man’s spirit. ***A very provocative revelation from Robin Bullock about this here and here. Highly recommended.***

Time zero for the greatest plan ever conceived to come into being. This is why the phrase is given so much weight in the text. ‘Katabole’ breaks down the old sinful world and ‘kosmos’ building the new world with a redemptive plan.  This gives testimony to Jesus and the high number of mentions of FOTW testifies to the magnitude of Him agreeing the plan. A whole new dawning.

Please note: There is a symmetrical juxta-positioning here, before the Genesis 6 day account Jesus is God and the FOTW of Genesis days 1-6 is in the physical realm. After the Abrahamic Covenant Jesus will eventually be a man but the FOTW will be in the spiritual realm. (The ‘sea’ of man’s spirits)

But There is more-With Just a Little Revelation?

No one gets to Heaven unless through Jesus Christ. Kerr has revealed that the occupants of Abraham’s bosom all received Christ when Christ descended there after His crucifixion. This would mean that the ‘us’ referred to (Ephesians 1:3-4)  may well be referring to humans before the Abrahamic Covenant also. Clearly, as they are born before the Abrahamic Covenant they must be chosen before this. Please check the link opposite if you have not already done so. (Showing biblical evidence for the human spirit, in God, pre-existing our earthly appearance)

Also, Jesus as the Word must have seen the parallelism of life on Earth and our spirit that Paul referred to in (2 Corinthians 4:6) and discussed in great detail on this site here. Thus realising His own role. Thus meaning the ‘foreordination’ referred to in (1 Peter 1:20) seems more likely to have occurred before or at least at the time of, the Genesis 6 days of ‘creation’. As this is clearly (in Gap Theory) a ‘katabole’ event it may mean ( and I believe does mean) that this ‘katabole kosmos’ event is the Genesis 6 day ‘creation’ account. So, when the time ‘before’ the term FOTW is used it is applying to Jesus as God and the 6 day ‘creation’ account. An apparently different meaning to after the FOTW.

So, two FOTWs, the first Jesus as a God/the triune God, the other Jesus as a man. It’s all about Jesus. (John 5:39)

Juggling, Juxtapositioning and Kosmoses and Built in Deliberate YET Precise Ambiguity

Please read the ‘Big kosmos-ruah Metaphor’ here before reading any further if you have not already done so. It describes a prolonged metaphor with multiple logical ‘typing’ that runs throughout Genesis 1 and 2. This reveals in great detail our salvation, the mechanics of it, the individual roles of the Triune God within it and much more New Testament doctrine too. It is most definitely the most important page on this site.

So, the Foundation of the World which sounds like Genesis days 1-6  but  is in fact, in part, referencing the plan for redemption and this began at the time of the Abrahamic Covenant, which, in fact, only comes to full fruition thousands of years later when we can be born again after the resurrection which is, in fact, metaphored in great detail in Genesis day 1-6?  So, the Foundation of the World does mean Genesis days 1-6 and the Abrahamic Covenant. Also Genesis 1 and 2 metaphorically defines our Salvation too. A double meaning which in part may explain the choice of words used in the phrase? Simple?

But there is even more.

So, the Abrahamic Covenant is the time of Foundation of The World which is also the time of Genesis days 1-6. A strange loop?  A remez? The wording with some of the usage of the FOTW seems unnecessarily ambiguous and deliberately non-specific with regard to time, especially, Luke 50. The above analysis establishes when the FOTW begins and when it may end. But:

Could it be that the term ‘kosmos’ is used cross dimensionally too, to apply in both the physical and spiritual realms simultaneously? Metaphorically, the plan for redemption is within Genesis 1 and 2. So, metaphorically the FOTW can apply to that too, especially as the word ‘kosmos’ seems to allude  to our spirit/soul in the metaphor. The word kosmos may often allude to our ‘spirit’ or the ‘sea’ of all our spirits (here)

Yet More Considerations

There always seems to often be two or more options that can be used to all events associated with the term the FOTW.

Secrets were kept from two different times? (Matthew 13:35). And even a third time after salvation? Are we referring to two different rests. (Hebrews 9:26 ) ? And even a third rest when we are indwelt? Two different kingdoms-Heaven and Abraham’s Bosom (Matthew  25:34) ? Is our own mansion classed as ‘preparing a kingdom’? All the prophets from 2 different times (and all the murders from one time)?.(Luke 11:50) Do we treat prophets differently after salvation? When did God give Jesus Mankind? Is this when we are saved and one body-are we a specific additional gift then? Did this change after the Abrahamic Covenant (John 17:21-24)?

Were we chosen before Genesis 1 to be holy and without blame or just before the Abrahamic Covenant (Ephesians 1:4). Or even just before our salvation. Likewise, when was Jesus foreordained and when should He actually have had to start sacrificing himself from (1 Peter 1:20)  (Hebrews 9:25-26) ?

When was a book of life written and of course, in prophecy, God could write this at any time (Revelation 13:8 )  (Revelation 17:8 ) prophetically or could we be written in this book before life on Earth, then blotted out after sinning then rewritten again after salvation?

Does FOTW have even more meaning?

The  Foundation of the World Testifies to Jesus

To recap, all the references to ‘before’ the FOTW refer to Jesus as God/the triune God and do not appear to be able to have a definitive time attached to them, this is I believe, significant. Maybe the fact that they ‘take place’ in the timeless spiritual realm is the reason for this. I do not believe this is a coincidence and may be their non specificity time wise is just to reflect this timeless nature or even allow them to be applied to different ‘times’ in the spiritual realm. However, logic dictates that this is likely before the Genesis 6 day account

Whenever I get stuck on hermeneutics my tactics are generally to see how the passage can testify to the Lord Jesus Christ.

To repeat, everything before the FOTW refers to Jesus as is God/the trine God, after the FOTW to Jesus as a man/men.

 I suggest, the Foundation of the World is:

But there is yet even  more:

If you look at the three uses of FOTW characterised as ‘before’ then they each could be considered to refer to each of the triune God:

Salvation is purposed by the Father,, accomplished by the Son and applied by the Holy Spirit


But still more :


Let us re-visit the text above and apply it to our salvation:

Matthew 13:35 (KJV) That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.

Jesus will speak in parables revealing secrets kept since this point in time the FOTW- The Abrahamic Covenant. So, descriptions of Jesus’ substitutionary role established at the Abrahamic Covenant are kept secret since then (also kept secret from Satan), but also:

A deliberate double meaning? if the FOTW refers to our salvation, then Jesus will speak in parables and also reveal ‘things’ only understood by the saved (since our own FOTW) (Luke 8:10). After the FOTW- ‘after’ always Jesus as a man and God and can apply to after our salvation too.


A kingdom in Heaven for mankind to inhabit is prepared from the time of Abrahamic Covenant (FOTW). Note, it does not seem to mean all of Heaven itself but rather some place within Heaven as Heaven already existed as an abode for God and the angels. But also:

A deliberate double meaning? A mansion is prepared for each of us at the time of our salvation (Since our own FOTW). Our mansion being within Heaven. (lKerr has revealed this mansion begins to be built at our Salvation and ends coincident with our death.) (John 14:2) . After the FOTW- ‘after’ always Jesus as a man and God and can apply to after our salvation too.


All the prophets that existed after this point in time-the FOTW-the Abrahamic Covenant-their death may require a judgment (because they now carry a different message?). This and the surrounding text  describe Jesus severely rebuking the Scribes and Pharisees and how they may have to pay a price for their and their ancestor’s treatment of prophets (from the FOTW) and also other murders from the time of Abel. But also:

A deliberate double meaning? All saved Christians, each of us, must give due respect to prophets after Salvation (our own FOTW) or we, also, will pay a price. (Luke 11:49) confirms profits will still be persecuted (James 5:10)   (Matthew 10:41))  confirm this. From the FOTW- ‘after’ always Jesus as a man and God and can apply to after our salvation too.


God the Father gives Jesus mankind before the Genesis 6 day account  (the FOTW) because He loved Jesus so much at that time.

A deliberate double meaning? The logic of the sentence can also mean something different with Jesus requesting that God the Father, (now that Jesus ‘has mankind’-as the saved are now one body) being asked to give mankind the same gifts that Jesus had (and the text describes these gifts) as God loved him before the FOTW (our own FOTW). ‘Because they are now mine give them the same gifts I have’? Before the FOTW-Jesus as God and man before our salvation.


Everyone was chosen before the Genesis 6 day creation account ( the FOTW) before man was on Earth  to be (become?) holy and without blame. Our spirit was in God the Father and hence,in Christ at this time. A literal place inside God the Father. (See the-repeated from above-links opposite). But also:

A deliberate double meaning? A second choice is made when we ‘open the door’ (Revelation 3 :20) Jesus comes in and we are in Jesus and then chosen again to become holy and without blame. Before the FOTW-Jesus as God and man before our salvation. My favourite double meaning- the ‘Him’ being God the Father in one way and Jesus in the other.


Jesus was foreordained for his role as saviour from before this point in time. So before even the Genesis 6 day account God the Father prophetically knew all about the fall of man and what Jesus role would be.  But also:

A deliberate double meaning? Before our own FOTW- our salvation- Jesus was foreordained to be our saviour. Before the FOTW-Jesus as God and man before salvation.


From the FOTW (the Abrahamic Covenant) some works were finished that enabled believers to enter into a rest. The blood covenant is established. This rest is available from that point in time to all.

A deliberate double meaning? The works for our salvation were completed in totality as Christ died for every sin that could ever be committed, this was before our salvation (our own FOTW). Hence, this is a different works than the Abrahamic Covenant-Jesus’ specific work on the cross  We can enter into a ‘deeper’ rest with Jesus in this rest with us after our own FOTW. After the FOTW here meaning-Jesus as a man and God after our salvation.

Jesus would have had to suffer yearly from this point in time to pay for our sins if he had not died for us in one ultimate sacrifice. Here, Jesus role is being compared to two different times. Firstly, the surrounding text describes the sacrificial system form the time of Moses, In  effect saying Jesus would have had to sacrifice himself often if he was to do the same if he had not carried out the ‘bigger’ sacrifice of Himself. But also:

A deliberate double meaning? The same thing can apply to all of us after our own FOTW. If Jesus had not carried out this ‘bigger’ sacrifice and took on board all the sin that could ever be committed (that too being nailed to the cross) then He would have had to carry out a sacrifice often ( ie every time we sinned) to cover our future sin’s too. After the FOTW here meaning-Jesus as a man’s works and after our salvation.


A book of life was written from this point in time onwards (the Abrahamic Covenant) that held all the names of people heaven bound.(so prophetically everyone saved).  The ‘written’ applying to each person’s name. But also:

A deliberate double meaning? The text could mean that the book was just ‘written’ from any moment and names were added (or blotted out (Revelation 3:5)) of each man as and when they were born/saved-from the moment  of our own FOTW.  After the FOTW here meaning-Jesus as a man and God and after our salvation.

Side note: I think the term ‘lamb slain’ which is in the Rev 13 passage but not the Rev 18 one is very significant although I cannot quite put my finger as to why? Please note, as Adam was in the ground 3 days before having his spirit breathed into him (paralleling Jesus) you could also say that Jesus was slain form that moment in time as well as form The Abrahamic Covenant when the redemptive plan was finalised. A triple meaning?

In a second summary then-three Meanings?

I suggest,

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                                        The Foundation of three Worlds   (Does it have a  precise meaning(s)?)


The first plain text meaning of the term ‘foundation of the world’ (FOTW) appears to be synonymous with the previous page’s ‘foundation of the Earth’ i.e. when the foundations of planet Earth/life on Earth were/was laid down. In biblical terms the time of ‘in the beginning’ when God created the Heaven and the Earth’. Why does the Bible use a different phrase? Much of the text that uses the expression FOTW relates to mankind and for ‘young earther creationists’ it is generally their stance that this confirms it is referring to the laying of Earth’s foundation-Genesis days 1-6. Many Gap Theorists also use the term to refer to Genesis days 1-6 because the precise meaning of the Greek words ‘katabole kosmos’, from which FOTW is always the translation, is of a breaking down and re-establishing and this therefor, confirming Gap Theory. A previous Earth being broken down and a new one reconstructed.

But, I think close study of scripture reveals that neither view is fully supported but both are in part. There also appears to be some deliberate ambiguity in biblical text concerning when the FOTW actually is and I aim to establish a reason for this and as always the reason seems to testify to our Lord Jesus Christ.

The conclusion I reach is the term FOTW is all about  Jesus Christ. When Jesus was God He re-made (katabole kosmos) the physical world in the Genesis 6 day account, when he agreed to become a man and sacrifice Himself, He began to re-make (katabole kosmos) the spiritual world comprising of all saved men’s spirits/souls. When Jesus was resurrected-a man and a God-He re-made (katabole kosmos)every individual saved person’s born again spirit.

God’s Timeline

There is no time at all in Heaven, l(Kat Kerr), not  time dilation and contraction, but no time. (Rev/Job/Peter) hint at this too. Because there is no time in Heaven there can be no calendar as we would use one, so ‘God’s timelines are measured by pivotal events. l(Kat Kerr).

I would expect God to refer to some of these pivotal events in scripture and perhaps gain more understanding by what God has determined to be a pivotal event by the emphasis He places on it-its number of biblical mentions and the amount of text dedicated to it.

This page is to explore the use of the phrase ‘Foundation of the World’ and to determine if it does, indeed, have  a consistent meaning. Is it referring to ‘in the beginning’ ? (whether it be with Gap Theory or not) Is it just a non-specific saying as we would say ‘back in the day’ or ‘since year dot’? Or does it refer to a specific event(s) other than Genesis creation week? Or perhaps other meanings, is it a prolonged time period? Does it even refer to more than one event?

Recap

To repeat the definitions from the previous page.The English is less precise than the Greek. The English word ‘world’ has several meanings (e.g. planet earth, all the societies and countries on the planet, a particular people, a particular period in history and more). The precision of the Greek gives us more information with each of the words that are translated as world. Unfortunately, this means that when the KJV uses the word ‘world’ then you have to know which Greek/Hebrew ‘world’ it is translated from in order to help reveal its true meaning.

And Again:

The Greek words ‘themelios’ and ‘katabole’ are translated as foundation in the New Testament.

Themelios occurs 16 times in 15 verses in the New Testament. Its meaning is absolutely clear. It always refers a foundation as we would describe the foundation of a building. The word ‘themelios’ is not the source word when the expression ‘foundation of the world’ (FOTW) appears.

‘Katabole’ occurs 11 times and is translated as foundation 10 times and conceived once.

‘Katabole’ is the only word used when the translation is the FOTW.

There appears to be no single English word that can be used for ‘katabole’. It contains two elements. The first is an element of throwing something down or breaking something up and/or a new foundation. It is where our word ‘catabolic’ originates. But perhaps the closest in English would be to use the phrase ‘an ending then a new dawning’ or ‘something new is conceived’. Maybe just the term ‘new dawning’ is the nearest and most concise as in itself implies a previous ending.

Kosmos: What adorns the  Earth. The life and culture present on the Earth at that moment. Possibly human society at the moment. What the conditions are on the Earth at that moment. An harmonious order. So, we can see modern derivatives of this: Cosmology-stars adoring the skies, cosmetics-make up adorning the face.

Possible ‘Katabole Kosmos’ Events compared to ‘In the beginning’

There are very many ‘katabole kosmos’ type events in the Bible I suggest that all of the 6 covenants are ‘major’ events that could be considered as new dawnings as they establish God’s redemptive plan. The Adamic Covenant, the Noahic Covenant, the Abrahamic Covenant, The Mosaic Covenant, the Davidic Covenant and the New Covenant. All of these show a slow progress into God’s redemptive plan. So, the FOTW may be linked to a covenant which may be considered a new dawning as they may be ‘a breaking down and rebuilding event ‘(the covenant itself may be the ‘katabole kosmos’ event).

Of these and other breaking down/creative instances of ‘tearing down and new beginnings’ in the Bible, the list below could be defined as the major ‘endings and new dawnings’ that potentially affect the whole world (and not just Israel). These events and their sometimes link with covenants of redemption, I will consider when trying to identify an exact time of the FOTW. The prime suspects?

I have considered all of the options above and consistency of meaning within the biblical text. Some of the other less notable possible ‘katabole kosmos’ type events can be eliminated by the time/dating arguments used below being applied to them also.

So, with these covenants and/or definitions of ‘katabole kosmos’ in mind there seem to be 11 major and potentially significant cataclysmic and rebirth events that I will consider.

  1. In the beginning within Gap Theory, where this occurs many years prior to Genesis days 1-6
  2. In the beginning with young earth creationists, effectively in the beginning is either day 1 or a collective summary of days 1-6. This same event is a remake for Gap Theorists.
  3. The fall of Adam and possible subsequent Adamic Covenant
  4. Noah’s flood and Covenant
  5. The Abrahamic Covenant
  6. The Mosaic Covenant
  7. The Davidic Covenant
  8. Jesus’ birth
  9. Jesus ministry
  10. The death and resurrection of Jesus Christ-the new covenant
  11. The new earth replacing the old earth


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Pre Assessment and Expectations and Theory

In studying the biblical use of these words I was expecting, like other gap theorists, to find the term ‘foundation of the world’ (katabole kosmos) (FOTW) would apply to the creation account of Genesis 1:3-31, thereby, proving Gap Theory. However, after very much trial and error, it became clear that ‘katabole kosmos’ and when/how it was used did not fully fit with the Genesis account, or at least not just that. This surprised me as I thought if Gap Theory is correct then it was a classic ‘katabole kosmos’ event (breaking down and rebuilding ). However, when I finally discovered a consistent solution that could apply the same meanings, and also, logical meanings to all the usage of FOTW then this solution turned out to be strong evidence for Gap Theory. It also dovetailed perfectly with the meanings of the term ‘beginnings’, ‘aions’, ‘kosmoses’ and what I have termed the ‘big kosmos-ruah metaphor’ here as defined on this site. This only occurs with Gap Theory. No young Earth theory can accommodate consistent meanings to these words as far as I could ascertain.

Does the FOTW also have different connotations in the spiritual and physical realms? Well yes, see below.

A ‘katabole’ event appears to be the same event or action ending one era/age and beginning another. Remember, ‘katabole’ is also used and translated as conception-an egg and sperm merging both cells into making a new ‘being’-a single event breaking down two entities, bridging, changing and merging two into one.

What Do We Know About the FOTW ?

So briefly if the term FOTW is used with consistent meaning, we know that:

The first plain reading of this summary seems like FOTW is closely associated with redemption and not the creation of planet earth. There is no obvious direct link to Genesis creation events but the FOTW appears to be referring to a time, or prophesying a time, when man had fallen and was in need of redemption. More below.

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First Deeper Assessment of the Use of FOTW

(Hebrews 9:25-26) Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself

These two verses speculate how much more often Jesus would have had to have suffered if He (like a priest who had to enter the holy place yearly) had to suffer often/yearly for us too but did in fact only do it just once and had victory over sin once and for all.

The verse also says he would have had to have done this since a time called the FOTW. Implying that the FOTW is coincident with the beginning of these described rituals. The preceding verses to this passage in Hebrews 9 show how God is referring to the new covenant with Jesus which was to replace the old covenant of sacrificial systems and temples. The text draws parallel with Jesus’ blood or how the old covenant serves as symbols of Jesus himself. Taken as a whole the passage leads to the conclusion that if Jesus had been carrying out this process (of suffering for us often/yearly) then he would have had to have been doing it since the idea of a covenant was in place and sacrificial practices as described were in place and this time is also known as  the FOTW.

So, the establishment of a remission of sins by blood sacrifice in a temple would seem to be significant as to when the FOTW actually was. This brings the Abrahamic and Mosaic covenants into focus as the first covenants that begin God’s redemptive plan and these are a considerable time after the Genesis 6 day creation account-the plain meaning of the word.

My Considerations to Hebrews 9

So, Adam and Eve were introduced to the concept of animal sacrifice to cover their nakedness (Genesis 3:21)

Cain and Abel made burnt offerings to God (Genesis 4:1-6)

Noah was advised to take clean animals and make burnt offerings (Genesis 8:20)

Abraham was advised to nearly sacrifice Isaac (Genesis 22.2)

So, at what point would Jesus have had to start sacrificing himself from? The initial text of Hebrews 9 describes sacrifices under the Mosaic Covenant but the wording is such that the FOTW is not necessary coincident with this described time. But necessarily the FOTW must be before or at the Mosaic Covenant. There is is no record that ceremonial sacrificial offerings were carried out from just after creation week nor was there a need to until man fell. So, the time that these certain types of ceremonial blood sacrifice offerings were required is likely the time of the FOTW.

I suggest that the Abrahamic Covenant is a very significant event and  would have  to have been in place before Jesus could act as a sacrificial lamb of God-this seems to point to the Abrahamic Covenant and not Genesis 6 days as the FOTW.

So the use of ‘since the FOTW’ would seem, in this verse at least, to, most likely be a reference to The Abrahamic Covenant



Further General and Deeper Analysis of the KJV Usage of the (FOTW)

In the KJV, the term Foundation of the world (FOTW) (katabole kosmos) occurs 10 times, of these 10 times, 3 refer to before the FOTW and 7 after the FOTW (since or from). This is a high number of mentions and this does, I think, point to it’s importance.

If I was describing Man Utd as the best football team since a certain time then I would not choose a time before they or football existed. ‘Man Utd are the most successful football team since the Battle of Hastings’ would make no sense. I may say Man Utd are the best team since football began or use a specific date or define a specific time after football had begun. Man. Utd are the best team since the 1990’s, the best team since Sir Alex Ferguson became manage or Man. Utd are the best team since football was invented. These are all valid sentences (and true btw!). The description of the time given is relevant to the main fact. I think the Bible often does the same and uses pertinent facts to the main theme.

I may also use idioms and generalisations and say that Man Utd have always been the best team or they have been the best team since year dot or many other expressions. All logically make the assumption that the expression applies to when football or they had started. With this in mind I will explore the remaining relevant biblical text.

‘Before The foundation of the world  (FOTW) (occurs 3 times in KJV)

I thank ‘Soteriology 101’ for pointing out  here that the mentions of FOTW that specify after the FOTW pertain to man  (and hence,  I suggest, also potentially to Jesus as a man) but those that specify before FOTW pertain to Jesus as God and/or the triune God. I had missed this point and it is pivotal. So, in a way, the term FOTW just with this usage alone immediately testifies of Jesus Christ becoming a man (John 5 :39) (John 17:21-24)  (Ephesians 1:4)   (1 Peter 1:20)

1 Peter 1:20 (KJV); Who verily was foreordained before the foundation (katabole) of the world (kosmos) but was manifest in these last times for you.

Here we find that it was known before FOTW that Jesus was going to be a sacrifice for us. (The surrounding text confirms it is referring to Jesus being a sacrificial lamb). This could mean any previous time (it could means billions of years before) but the text may imply that something happened at this time(the FOTW) concerning this foreordination. Did something change at the FOTW for God to mark it as significant to say well ‘even before this time Jesus was earmarked for this role.’ Is it likely that a plan for redemption was in place before the creation of the world? Before we sinned? Before man was even created. God clearly can declare the end from the beginning so knew what Jesus would have to do. He knew man would fall.  The whole of the Genesis similitudes page on this site shows that God is prophesying Jesus role in our redemption by paralleling it with planet Earth. If the FOTW refers to Genesis 1 creation account then nothing has happened to necessitate the need of a saviour until Adam falls. However, God can prophetically ‘foreordain Jesus for this role at any time because he knows what will happen anyway.

More Considerations 1 Peter 1:20

The text is perhaps more consistent with something happening to mark it as relevant to Jesus’ role and perhaps hints that the FOTW is after man has fallen and a system of redemption and sacrifice is in place. It can also be argued that the Abrahamic Covenant is a  significant with Jesus ‘matching’ or perhaps agreeing to match Abraham’s sacrifice of Isaac. However, this verse’s use of  ‘before the FOTW’ is also consistent with its plain text meaning-before Genesis day 1 -before man was even created God had fore-ordained Jesus’ role as a sacrificial lamb. All seem to be valid interpretations making the timing non-determinate and please note the phrase could have multiple meanings and  could be applying to different events.

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Ephesians1: 3-4 (KJV):Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ. According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

lKerr has revealed that we lived inside God before being ‘assigned’ to Earth and we were not sinful at this time. I know this will be a problem for many but  there is strong scriptural evidence to support it, see the links in the margin opposite.We also find that before the FOTW (the plain meaning again implies something significant happened at the FOTW) we were chosen whilst we were living inside God as tiny spirits to be placed on Earth and that we had the potential to be holy and without blame in that existence. Kerr also reveals How Jesus and The Holy Spirit themselves also step ‘inside God the Father- this, thus giving a potential meaning to the otherwise almost impossible to understand (in my opinion) ‘us in him’ before we are saved and how/when we received ‘heavenly blessings’. See the links opposite. Again. But

There is again no reason to say this use of before the FOTW means anything other than before Genesis 1 days 1-6 and not The Abrahamic Covenant, (But if it occurs before Genesis 1 then it also occurs before The Abrahamic Covenant too). Thus before and after the FOTW may refer to different events or the same events-if it is before the first it is also before the second and if it is after the second it is after the first. Or, maybe the time between the two events is the FOTW. There is also the logical possibility of man being chosen for different roles at different times and in different members of the triune God.

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John 17:24 (KJV)

Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovest me before the foundation of the world.

Before this time (and again the plain meaning hints that the FOTW is significant) God so loved Jesus that He glorified him and the surrounding text implies that this was by giving him mankind. The previous verses describe part of this glory involved man being within God and Jesus (and the Holy Spirit?) and they being within us. The text seems to describe an indwelling in just about every direction and the text says this is what Jesus had with God the Father before hand and he wanted it for us now. It also talks about humans being ‘made perfect’, which is also consistent with us having fallen and needing to be made perfect. These indwellings also seem, in some cases, to be in addition to our earthly ones.

Again, there seems almost a deliberate ambiguity with this before the FOTW- the actual time being indeterminate but there seems to be nothing to contradict that this statement could be made before the Genesis 6 days of creation.




From/Since The foundation of the world  (FOTW) occurs 7 times in KJV

(Matthew 13:35)  (Matthew  25:34)  (Luke 11:50)   (Hebrews 4:3 )  (Hebrews 9:26 )   

(Revelation 13:8 )  (Revelation 17:8 )

(Matthew 13:35 KJV) That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret  from the foundation of the world

Matthew observes that Jesus will utter in parables things which have been kept secret from (since) the FOTW. Matthew is confirming the prophecy in Psalm 78. The previous verses in Matthew are about salvation and the kingdom of God with the parable of the sower.

(Psalm 78: 2-5 KJV)  I will open my mouth in a parable: I will utter dark sayings of old:Which we have heard and known, and our fathers have told us. We will not hide them from their children, shewing to the generation to come the praises of the LORD, and his strength, and his wonderful works that he hath done. For he established a testimony in Jacob, and appointed a law in Israel, which he commanded our fathers, that they should make them known to their children:

The Psalm passage describes these sayings in more detail and says they are known and passed down from father to son and the secrets were about God’s Glory and works. It describes ‘works’ God has done. The passage also describes Jacob as knowing these secrets. The implication is that these secrets have been kept since the time of Jacob or his probable close ancestry. Logically, although it is possible to keep secrets starting from a time significantly after an event, it does make more sense to keep it secret from the moment of the event. So, if the secret concerns Jacob and the FOTW is referring to Moses’ time, then there would be a period of a few hundred years when it was not secret at all, which seems inconsistent. (The importance of this ‘secrecy policy’ may be keeping the secret from Satan and his forces and not just mankind.) This marks this FOTW at being most likely before or around Jacob’s time. If the nature of the parables is considered with all previous biblical testimony the Abrahamic covenant (a promise of a promised land, a promise to his descendants and a promise of redemption and blessing) seems the most relevant to the parables of Matthew 13. But the text could also be referencing keeping secrets for different people or even in different realms.and thereby refer to different events. Again the ambiguity/dual or more meanings seems to be becoming a deliberate thing?

More Considerations of Matthew 13:35

The parables immediately previous to the text of Matthew 13 contain the parable of the sower, the parable of the mustard seed and the parable of the tares. All of these parables are concerned with salvation and the kingdom of Heaven. These secrets seem to be referring to mankind. Who are these secrets kept form? Man or Satan or both? They have been known since the FOTW, that would mean that Adam and Eve would have possibly known them if the FOTW was Genesis 1. This makes no sense, Adam and Eve knowing redemption was needed would not have been so easily tricked into falling? The fact that these parables concern redemption would also tend to link them to the Abrahamic covenant which is where God first reveals his plan of redemption. Was it  established then that Jesus was going to be a substitutionary sacrifice at that point but it was kept secret form some group (s)..

 So again, the use of after (‘from’) seems to refer to The Abrahamic Covenant. But does it refer to other events simultaneously or a time period?

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(Matthew  25:34) Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

God declares in this verse how the blessed will inherit a kingdom prepared from the FOTW, and so started making a habitation for them then. The kingdom could be the kingdom referred to as Abraham’s bosom or it could be our heavenly kingdom. If it was Abraham’s bosom then it may be more consistent with it being so named because of the shared name with the Abrahamic Covenant-a shared coincidental event. Please note prepared does not mean newly created just worked on would suffice.

Jesus said he was going to prepare a place for us also John 14:3   But Abraham’s bosom has been emptied by then as revealed by lKerr. So, this refers to Heaven itself. The resurrected dead people in the streets after Jesus resurrection are from Abraham’s bosom, people were not allowed into heaven until that point in time. l(Kat Kerr)

lKerr describes people’s individual mansions being finished coincident with their passing, and the building started coincident with their conception and/or salvation so, this preparation of the kingdom is ongoing and may have started at any time. So, at least three different builds - 2 kingdoms (heaven and Abraham's bosom worked on) and individual mansions..

So, the text seems to be again deliberately ambiguous and able to refer to either Abraham’s bosom heaven itself or man’s mansion in Heaven. More later.

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(Luke 11:50)That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation; From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias, which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation

It should be noted that the first use of the term prophet in the KJV is referring to Abraham, so, there is a plain text meaning that the FOTW could start then as he was the first named prophet. Who was the first of ‘all the prophets’. Was Enoch a prophet? Prophet does not just mean someone who predicts the future (who prophesies as Enoch did (Jude 1:14)) but also someone who speaks for God. If Abraham was the first then this is evidence that FOTW is at the time of Abraham. The text may also refer to just prophets after the FOTW and acknowledge that there were prophets before then but they were not relevant to this statement. The text can, seemingly, be interpreted both ways.

The term FOTW looks like it could be literal in this case i.e. ‘Every prophet slain since the beginning of the world’ and adding to this also ‘the blood shed from Abel to Zechariah’.

Luke describes the blood of the prophets slain since the FOTW and that this generation would reap a judgment for this. Why did accountability come on this generation? The possibility is that now death of his prophets (now with a different message) carried a judgement. The next verse-Luke 11:51 describes the blood shed from Abel to Zechariah would also be required of this generation.  A different time frame and crime, or the same time frame? Are these just generalisations or specific periods and why are they different? Jesus is speaking to the Scribes and Pharisees at this point and condemning them. Why would all murders be attributable to them? And specifically all prophets from the FOTW, is that all prophets from the beginning of man or is it some time after?

More Considerations of Luke 11:50

The plain text reading of these two verses may mean that Abel was a prophet and that Jesus was expanding on his statement in verse 50 and defining who the prophets were. This is a much debated issue as to who Zechariah actually was as there are several in the Bible. (See B.A. Carson’s summary here). I favour one of the views put forward by Carson that the term Abel to Zechariah is just a term as we would say from Genesis to Revelation but in that case referring to the Hebrew Bible. If it did literally refer to Abel as a prophet it would place the FOTW before Abel. I think it more likely that He is saying every prophet since this specific time called the FOTW who carried my message and who you killed will carry a judgment and also every drop of blood spilled from the first murder until I came along would also carry a judgement.  It may even be that the further qualification of between the ‘alter and the temple’ may be alluding to death attributable to the religious practices of the time?

But this verse is one I find very difficult.

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(Hebrews 4:3-5 KJV)  For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished (that enabled them to enter into his rest) from the foundation of the world. For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest,    

This passage is generally thought to refer to Psalm 95:11 (below) where God appears to be fed up with Israel and sites his perseverance with their 40 years in the wilderness and declares an oath that they will not enter into his rest. So, the works needed for them to rest were already in place at this point in time.

More Consideration of Hebrews 4:3-5

So, works were carried out that enabled man to enter into a rest and these works were finished by the time of the FOTW. This does not sound like creation days 1-6 . What took place during that week that enabled man to gain redemption?

Two rests are described in the text: The rest of Genesis and a rest similar to that (‘and in that place again’)  another ‘7th day rest’. This is consistent with God’s redemptive plan and blood covenant being finalised (the works) and put in place and described as a ‘work’ and confirms that the FOTW may refer to a different ‘7th day rest’ to God’s 7th day rest of Genesis 1. More below

(Psalm 95:11 KJV) When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my work. Forty years long was I grieved with this generation, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways: Unto whom I sware in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest.

The psalmist verse amplifies this and the two verses taken together imply that the works needed for them to be able to enter into his rest were completed since the FOTW.  

God did not have a redemption plan for men to be in place since Genesis 6 day creation event because man had not fallen at that point and was in no need of it. Presumably, un-fallen Adam could enter onto God’s rest of the 7th day

This is strong evidence that Genesis 1 is not the  (only)‘katabole kosmos’ event being referred to here but a second works and rest is completed at this FOTW. And there may be more to come too?

So again, the use of after (‘from’) seems to refer at least, principally  to The Abrahamic Covenant.

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**Similitude** The Big kosmos-ruah Metaphor

here  

You existing before arrival on earth?

Biblical evidence  briefly here

Eternity inside God?

Biblical evidence  briefly here

Inside, Indwelling and One

Biblical evidence  briefly here

Eternal and created?

How can that  be?

 Briefly

  here

abraham angela waye 143 88

You existing before arrival on earth?

Biblical evidence  briefly here

You existing before arrival on earth?

Biblical evidence  briefly here

Eternity inside God?

Biblical evidence  briefly here

Inside, Indwelling and One

Biblical evidence  briefly here

Eternal and created?

How can that  be?

 Briefly

  here


I am reminded of a revelation by Robin Bullock (at the start of the interview here) where he states that when God uses words he may be using every single meaning of that word and not just the single translation we tend to seek.

Gap Theory Reveals #6

Yellow text

=

before the FOTW


 Black text

=

 After the FOTW

The plan for man’s redemption.

1. Fore-ordained before Gen 1

2.The contract signed at the Abrahamic Covenant, the deal is done.

3.The deal  is actioned at Christ’s Resurrection and the saved’s salvation

Three FOTWs

Three Pivotal Moments in the  Redemption Plan

  1. Jesus foreordained for his role-before Gen 1
  2. The deal is covenanted-The Abrahamic Covenant
  3. The deal actioned-everyone's salvation

Three FOTWs


Three Pivotal Moments in the  Redemption Plan

  1. Jesus foreordained for his role-before Gen 1
  2. The deal is covenanted-The Abrahamic Covenant
  3. The deal actioned-everyone's salvation

Three FOTWs?


Acknowledgements

1. Frank W Nelte here